Jane Davies Ep.3 Transcript

Please note: This is an incredibly rough transcript from my conversation with Jane Davies, Ep.3. It has not been checked by a human. To listen to the full audio version, head here.

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Kelly Anne Powers 0:00

Have to make a lot of bad work and allow yourself to make ugly paintings to get to the stuff that that is really you.

Kelly Anne Powers 0:08

Hello and welcome to Episode Three of the Learn to paint podcast where we talk with artists and teachers about how to get better at painting. I'm Kelly m Powers and this week I talked with mixed media artist Jane Davies. These has lived many lives including as a potter and Freelancer and author. And about 10 years ago she committed to painting and teaching full time and this conversation we talk less about specific materials and more about ways to approach your work, ways to approach your work when you're just starting out. When you're feeling uninspired when you're having trouble finishing a painting. Lots of great ideas for how to approach your painting practice. Jane approaches her work very differently than the past two artists I've talked to and I love that. It shows that there are as many ways of working is there are artists. As always, check

Jane Davies 0:59

cast.com slash podcast slash episode three for links to James classes and the vocab list for this week. While you're there, subscribe to the newsletter for weekly learning to paint resources. Now, let's jump in. Hi, Jay. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks, Kelly, great to be here.

Kelly Anne Powers 1:16

When you decided to make art your primary focus, what was the biggest challenge you ran into? Was it skills was it mindset?

Jane Davies

You know, I just didn't even think of it like that. I just thought, I'm going to try to make art and teach just to see what that was like I gave myself some time to find teaching gigs. And actually I made a promise to myself at that time that I would not show or try to sell my work for a while like until I really felt comfortable and confident as to who I am as an artist because I really didn't want that kind of pressure of sales or other people looking at it to influence where I went with the work. So the goal wasn't like okay, now I'm just going to make art and make a living at it. The goal was I'm going to teach because I had done some teaching, and I knew it was something I could do and had a lot of interest in kind of learning to do it better. So it didn't feel like it didn't feel like a major challenge in kind of the normal ways. It wasn't like quitting a high paying corporate job and, you know, trying to be a water colorist. It wasn't that at all.

Kelly Anne Powers 2:22

Do you think people jump too early into wanting to show their work? And how do you think that affects them as artists?

Jane Davies

I do actually get a lot of kind of requests for professional practices, information from people who think aren't ready, which tells me that that Yeah, there are some people that I think jumped to it too soon. I think a lot of people come to art with the assumption that the point is to make objects and sell them or that that's when you'll know you've made it. And I've even had requests from like almost beginners saying, Okay, well how do you make art and then how do you sell it? I mean, not that simply but some version of that where they're thinking of making the art and selling the art in the same sentence. And to me that they're really two different hats, and making our art practices are different from art business practices to me and, and I really work hard to keep them separate. And I encourage people to do that when when they're asking.

Kelly Anne Powers 3:22

So how long did you work exclusively on building your skills? And what did that process look like?

Jane Davies

I didn't realize how little I knew. So it wasn't that hard. You know, it's like, I had been doing freelance work for about 10 years. And so I knew how to pay. Like, you know, I knew my style in the freelance work was more illustrative. So I didn't have any intimidation with materials. I mean, I had written a few books by then on art making and so I had talked with a lot of artists and I had had a lot of inspiration. So yeah, I guess I just kind of picked up where that left off for you, but

Kelly Anne Powers 4:00

Materials seem really important. And I'm making some assumptions here. But it seems like you learn a lot through materials. How important is it to know your materials?

Jane Davies

If you don't love the material, you wouldn't be painting? I actually had someone recently say, Well, I really want to learn to do watercolors like this, I want to do watercolor landscapes. And I said, Well, I could get you a set of watercolors, and you could just kind of fool around with them, see what they do. And she said, Oh, I don't want to bother with that. I just want to make the watercolor landscapes. Like that's kind of the opposite end of the spectrum, if you so so obviously, she is not going to paint. I mean, if you don't love the materials, you're not going to go there. I mean, God, I would love to play the violin beautifully. But am I willing to practice every day? No, I've never played the violin. So to the extent that you're not going to do it, if you don't love the materials, because it's so involved with materials, then they're kind of essential. I'm going to go off on a tangent for a second. Lot of people do digital work digital art, because there are some really great applications for that. And some of my students do digital work as well as work and materials. Some people do fabulous digital work. I'm not that interested in doing it myself, because a I've done a ton of it in doing freelance work, you know, I would paint stuff by hand scan, it all put it all together digitally. So it's not so I don't mean to diss it as any sort of less valid, it's just, that doesn't interest me because there aren't materials involved. So for me, the the materials are important. And I guess I do find myself being pretty fluid in my painting practice, because I understand the viscosity and the transparency, and the pigment load of all the paints I'm using, I understand the range of marks I can make with a certain kind of crayon and that's because I pay attention and I'm enjoying So I noticed that and a lot of my students who have less experience with materials, I mean, they may come from a different art background and they're kind of new to paint. It's a big leap. It seems like it's a big learning leap. But I've been sort of learning it over time while I was a potter. And then while I was a designer, and so even though I've only been kind of doing this painting and teaching thing full time for, I want to say about nine years, I started my painting practice in the early 90s. So that's a lot longer.

Kelly Anne Powers 6:32

Do you think it's important to work only with professional paints?

Jane Davies 6:37

No it's important to feel pretty free with your materials. So if you're intimidated by the expensive paint, I have some suggestions on on my materials, my favorite materials page on my website for some student grade paints that are decent.

When people come to a workshop though I want them to invest, and I particularly specify that you should bring your main colors in professional grade paints have that supplemented by student grade paints. But there's all kinds of practices that you can do with even cheap craft paints, and tempera and crayons. I've recently been experimenting with kind of kid art materials, Jill crayons. And there's these temporary sticks and some other other materials like that, that they don't have a lot of pigment in them. They're not very opaque, but boy, you can get a lot of mileage out of them if you just want to make images. And so I really encourage people to get materials that you feel really free with like, if you feel like every paint brush stroke is going to cost you 15 bucks. You're not going to experiment right much.

Kelly Anne Powers 7:42

What's the danger sort of long term and feeling scared to use your materials?

Jane Davies

Oh, that you just won't find your way as an artist. I mean, if you can't experiment, if you can't give yourself that freedom. I wouldn't call it a danger but that's kind of the risk and it depends on your interest. If you just want to learned how to do this particular kind of painting and do it well or do it in the style of your guru. There's lots of people teaching like that. And if that's kind of where you want to go, you can do that without quote wasting materials. Most people I think, don't do that they study with different teachers who can teach them their style. And then they take other workshops with other teachers, and, you know, learn from each one. But I have met people who really take pride in learning to paint like so. And so. And if that's the goal, then that's a more straightforward way of kind of reaching our goal with as little waste as possible. But it's a different practice than just learning to be your own artists for your painting.

Kelly Anne Powers 8:43

Do you have a general process you work through? And what does it look like?

Jane Davies

Oh, I have a whole bunch of them. And they're all really fun, and none of them have much of a plan associated with them. Recently, I've been doing this thing called the the 30 minutes exercise. And I've done exercises like this in the past the five minute painting. This is the 30 minute exercise. And it's a way that you each just show up and make marks for 30 minutes. And so what I've been doing is putting three sheets of 19 by 24, Bristol on the wall. And then I have a bunch of paint and a bunch of collage material. And I just make marks one after the other and they can be paid or collage or drawing and there's a little drying time involved. So I like stop the clock and get out the hair dryer. The point isn't to make beautiful pieces. The point is to get further than I would on the pieces if I didn't have the rule to keep making marks. So there's like no hesitation now standing back and wondering what it needs or what it should look like or, you know, I'm not looking at compositional issues until I'm about 10 layers in and how important has that been to us and our artists to find ways to push yourself.

Oh, it's it's the whole thing. It's the whole purpose. So yeah, you're right. I mean, this 30 minute thing is just kind of a recent thing. But generally, I'll sort of have some kind of visual puzzle, I want to explore some kind of visual vocabulary that that I want to play with. And so over the course of at least three pieces, if they're large, or 20, if they're small, I'll start playing with them. And the kind of more or less defined vocabulary I want to play with or issue I want to look at doesn't it all kind of dictate what the pieces will look like? Unless it's a color thing like if I really want to see what what it's like just work it in black and white. I kind of know that the pieces are going to be black and white. But yeah, I didn't collage sometimes there's like particular things I want to work with, especially if I'm doing just pure collage without paint and recently played around with text, because it's really fun to sort of see what shapes letters can make. And then the enormous variety of texts you can find in magazines and junk mail. And then of course, you can make your own and print it out. And so that's been kind of fun.

Kelly Anne Powers 11:15

A lot of artists, especially when they're starting out, feel the need to paint a painting, something that they can put on a wall, something that they can show a friend. And painting a finished piece is different than painting to experiment or painting to explore. And it feels like when I think about how you work, the goal of being a finished piece feels so limiting.

Jane Davies 11:37

Yeah, even even those of us who have been doing it a while, feel the pressure to make finished paintings. And so for me, it's a constant challenge to let that go. And part of my process is setting up circumstances in which the finished piece isn't the goal. But this 30 minute thing is like if I've made marks for 30 minutes have been successful.

If everything that I made looks like, you know, crap, it doesn't matter. That's not part of the goal. Usually it looks pretty interesting. And it looks different than it would if I was working differently. So yeah, I, even with students that have done this 30 minute thing, and people that are commenting on it, from some people, I'm getting the sense that there's still very attached to the finished image, like, Oh, I couldn't possibly finish X, Y, or Z in 30 minutes. So yeah, I think most people are kind of attached to the, to the finished image. And I am too, but I just make it a real conscious effort to to get away from that. And I do find terrific rewards in doing these sort of process oriented pieces.

Kelly Anne Powers 12:43

When you talk about the challenge of staying present. Is that one of the ways that you sort of force yourself to stay present?

Jane Davies

Absolutely. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. Yeah, because this is just a hypothesis. I think that if you have finished painting in your head, you're less present to what's going on in front of you. So I think for a lot of people, including me, having an idea of what the painting should look like, or what I want it to look like, it gets in the way. And then this thing of timing something or making myself do a practice continuously without hesitation for, you know, the five minutes or until it's the papers covered, or whatever it is, really makes me pay attention.

Kelly Anne Powers 13:29

You talk about your process being spontaneous, and that's different than random for you. What's the difference between spontaneous and random or unthinking in the way that you approach or a student approaches their work?

Jane Davies

Oh, that's a good question because it comes up a lot and it also gets misquoted a lot. So the difference between a spontaneity and intuitive way of working and random is you're paying attention. So random is like Oh, just fling the paint anywhere. And to do is observed my responses. So it's different than just saying I like it. It's saying that big, juicy line against that little delicate line really Jazz's me, like, yeah, that really kind of gets it going for me. So things like that, that observation, my hypothesis is that learning to see and articulate what you're seeing in a neutral way, is a way to practice getting that to be intuitive so that you can kind of see your painting or your work, evolve, noticing those things, but not getting judgmental about them. And that is the kind of intuitive that becomes intuitive.

Kelly Anne Powers 17:37

And it sounds like those are two separate processes that when you're in the painting, be in the painting, but then also make sure you step back from the painting and think about the painting,

Jane Davies 17:51

Not quite because the observation isn't like a visual analysis. It's a bit of a it's hard to say because it is actually a little bit of an analysis isn't it? But I guess there's all this kind of art speak that, oh, this balance is that and this, I can't remember what all the words are. But there's a bunch of words that, oh, there's movement and energy. Okay, that's great. But it's not an observation of visual content that's kind of an expressive response to it and emotional response, as I really try to get people to be able to make observations that are just about the visual content. Which isn't to say that that's how we experience art as viewers, but as artists as making the stuff we need to know our ingredients. We need to be noticing what those are as as they're happening. So yeah, looking at a piece is different than making a piece but when you're making a piece if you can see Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I love that little contrast. Oh, look at that texture over there. Oh, yeah. Okay, that line in and let me just cover that up. Okay. Like that's my sort of inner monologue when I'm working and it's who are and You know, cover that up ads? Oh yeah, look at that. But it is in terms of like, sameness and difference like contrast and degrees of contrast of various things, you know, color, value, quality of life, etc. So you're absolutely right that that looking at a piece is is a whole lot different than making a piece. But ultimately, I want that observation thing to become intuitive.

Kelly Anne Powers

Along some of the same lines. What's the biggest challenge that you see your students facing in their work?

Jane Davies

Too much judgment? I guess I feel like I'm getting I'm starting to get free of that myself. But I totally get it. I've been there. I do that occasionally. That kind of inner critic shows up and sin and but I think it yeah, that that's probably the kind of self criticism and too quick to judge before they've even like, observe what's going on. And I think for women

That's even more so because culturally, we're taught to be sort of more self effacing. And so I think for women, especially women of a older generation, even then me, it's even more. So, you know, I have hope that younger generations don't have that kind of self criticism. So, so much ingrained, but it really is. It takes a lot to say, now I'm an artist, and yeah, I think my works good.

Kelly Anne Powers 20:29

Do you think some of that comes from people thinking that they should be better than they are faster than they are?

Jane Davies 20:35

Oh, sure. Yeah. because everything's supposed to be immediate gratification. And a lot of the, I don't know, the stuff out there, books and videos and stuff. Some of them seem to kind of promise results, fast results. Not all of them. I mean, there's an awful lot of instructional material. That's just, hey, here's, here's how I do it. Here's what I've learned.

It might be useful to you, but there are, I don't know, there's some push towards like quick and easy, you know, quick and easy art, art and 10 lessons or, you know, learn to draw in 10 easy lessons or just 10 minutes a day, that kind of thing. And I think because so much of our lives sort of falsely offered that promise. So many other things do. It's kind of easy to get into the habit of, of wanting that kind of immediate gratification. But I've been so tempted to write a book, or a video or something called, you know, agonizing how to make art that takes your whole life and it's totally agonizing or so. So, opposite of quick and easy because it's not quick, it's not quick and it and you don't just arrive somewhere, okay, now I'm an artist. Now I'm an accomplished artist. It's just an ongoing thing if you're paying attention.

Kelly Anne Powers 21:54

I've just trying so hard not to just laugh really hard on this because yes to all of that.

Kelly Anne Powers 22:02

Well, along those same lines, how important is it, then as an artist to get comfortable with the discomfort of not knowing what's going to happen,

Jane Davies 22:14

You must be inside my head.

I mean, I was just going to sort of add to that, that it's fun if you kind of change your orientation and your expectations, so that, that discomfort and not knowing is fun, rather than agonizing. Because if you expect a finished piece at the end of your session, that's putting a lot of pressure on it. And then when you don't finish the piece, or you don't have a piece that you'd like, at the end of your session, then you have failed and that adds to the self criticism. So that can be just a whole cyclical thing. So if you change your your goals and your expectations to things that are much more realistic, like oh yeah, I could make marks for 30 minutes without finished piece being kind of the holy grail, then you have more fun because you take the pressure off, you make more discoveries, because you do all kinds of stuff you wouldn't do if you felt the pressure to make a finished good piece. Yeah, you really do have to make friends with that discomfort. And that takes practice too, because we're so accustomed to kind of avoiding discomfort.

Kelly Anne Powers 23:24

What is the biggest misconception you run into with your students who want to paint abstractly?

Jane Davies 23:31

I don't know if this is among students or people who have less art background that my students because my students generally are pretty sophisticated in, in their work, and in their practice, and they're thinking about it. But one misconception is that abstract is easier than representational work, but that's like, Who cares? That doesn't seem to me all that significant, but the other misconception is exactly what you brought up. That way. Once you kind of learn how to do it, and you find your own style, then it will be easier. Or then it will be easy. And

Jane Davies 24:13

I might be guilty myself of chasing that rainbow. I mean, just like oh yeah, just, if I could just get this, this this thing out, then I can make a bunch more of them. And the truth is I can't, you know, like it my any of my explorations Oh yeah. Oh, this is I'm on a roll. And I'll just make 10 more of those and can't do it. So yeah, there is this myth of the artist who has found her style has found her voice and she just shows up at the studio and bangs out masterpiece after masterpiece. If it gets that easy. You're not doing it, right. I mean, that's just my I mean, if you're banging out paintings and you know how to paint them, like you know how they're going to turn out when you start then it's a Different activity that's like production painting, it's like, it's more like a craft, where you've learned the skill of doing it really well. And each one is going to be a little bit different, but you know how to do it. And that is not to diss craft. I mean, I started out as a potter and, and then I started painting on pottery, and I was doing the same designs over and over again, I knew how they would turn out. And still there was kind of a joy in the just perfecting that design, perfecting that painting on the pottery. But that's a very different activity than making Fine Art where you don't know where it's going to come out. It's more about the exploration and the sort of like soul searching, but I don't mean to be that kind of morose. It's kind of like find a continual discovery of what's in there.

Kelly Anne Powers

I should have warned you that this is all going to be very deep, Jane.

Kelly Anne Powers 25:54

That's great. Thank you. Were in your process. And let's say you're you know, On some level that you might want to turn this into a finished painting, either for a show or a series, where in your process, do you really think about design? And how conscious Are you of choosing one thing and then creating a painting around that thing? At the end?

Janen Davies 26:19

Yeah, I was just thinking about this today, because I know some people talk about design right at the beginning of a painting, like, oh, let's decide where the visual way it's going to be. And they usually do that with values, like where the dark values, the mid values to like values or something like that. And that works for a lot of people. It doesn't work for me at all. I kind of have to go at it. And then as an image begins to emerge, I might say, Okay, this is where this is going. And then just start kind of emphasizing the particular compositional things that are calling me. So I use the term design, specifically for things that you were planning ahead and then executing and having been

Jane Davies 27:00

Production crafts person, freelance designer and a fine artist. For me, those are three exceptionally different activities kind of defined by by process and mindset. So I don't really use the word design and painting composition. Yeah, it's all composition, you throw stuff on a page, and that's a composition. But I start thinking about and paying attention to compositional stuff for a potential finished piece at the end, like probably the second last layer, or something like that. And I was thinking about this earlier because you know, so many people start at the beginning, I was thinking what, maybe that would be kind of an interesting class to say, Okay, let's let's do composition backwards or upside down where we don't even look at it until we've got 10 layers, the piece, but then I thought, you know, calling a workshop that sort of assumes people are starting with composition and I don't know if people are not so seemed a little presumptuous.

Kelly Anne Powers 28:01

I took a classroom, you an online classroom, you several years ago that broke down composition into sort of some of the basics. It was a basic composition class. Could you talk to us about some of the basic compositions? And then a follow up to that? Do you find it useful when someone is just starting out? Is it useful to go in with a plan and see it through a way?

Jane Davies 28:22

a way? That's a good question. I think that composition class that you took, probably did, maybe seven years ago, it was a while. So like, my ideas about composition have certainly evolved. So they're a different place. But I think some compositional formats are useful for beginners. Like, I'm going to use a grid as a format. Okay. But then that's not nearly enough. It's like, well, what am I exploring within that format? So yeah, I think in that class, I have it as a downloadable class now and there's a lesson where we're using the grid as a format And we're exploring size of elements. And we're working in a kind of monochromatic scheme. So we're trying to like we're not doing color contrast, because we're working monochromatic Lee, we don't have to worry about the format, because that's a given. And so what we get to pay attention to his little teeny elements and great big elements and medium sized elements, I haven't looked at that class in a little while. So I think I have that right. But there might be some other aspects to that lesson. But I think that in a beginner class like that, that's like beginner composition. It's not necessarily for beginner painters kind of isolating compositional issues by establishing the givens establishing the constants, and then limiting the variables and format is one of the things that's that can be a constant that's very useful

Kelly Anne Powers 29:50

composition. A little bit to your language analogy feels like this intangible thing at first. So how does it begin or get stronger at something that is pretty intangible.

Jane Davies 30:04

I think by learning to see and articulate what they see, in my book, abstract paintings, the elements of visual language, I really try to kind of articulate visual language and that's what composition is. It's just the stuff that's there on the page, or the canvas. And my handholds for seeing that are mostly in terms of contrast, and that can be subtle contrast all the way to dramatic contrast. And so I try to articulate this stuff. First the elements and then this principle of contrast, so size of elements. Do you see all the same size do you see big ones little ones? color? Is everything the same color? Do you have a lot of different colors do you have limited palette, quality of line value is a big one. Another contrast that I like looking at is like flatness of color, and depth or texture. So if you have a piece that has beautiful texture and transparency and depth all over, you'd love all the beautiful parts of it. But somehow it's not a strong image, one thing you can consider is providing some contrast. So how about a little flat space in there, just try it. It's just kind of a hand hold, like if something's working, and it is singing to you. And your piece is just awesome. And you can't say why but it just is, then just be grateful and enjoy your piece. And don't question it. But it's when you're working on something or it's getting close, you know, you're 10 layers in and you're not sure what to do next, you can look for sameness and difference. And I find that just a really useful tool. I don't know if everyone else does, but I find it really useful. So in that book, I start out by kind of describing elements as I see them, and then ways that things can contrast so I call the chapter on composition.

Jane Davies 32:00

I call it the mechanics of composition. Because it's not a set of rules about composition. And I think a lot of people think of composition as kind of a set of rules that here's how it should be. And I think it's whatever you want it to be as long as it's, you're, like aware of it and seeing it and making a conscious decision that Okay, yeah, this is it.

Kelly Anne Powers 32:21

With color, where do you see artists running into problems?

Jane Davies

I've started doing more color mixing in my workshops. And I'm a bit surprised when people haven't done a ton of color mixing on their own. And they seem to have the idea that there's some like correct way to do it, and they haven't learned it rather than just experimenting. I mean, you got all this paint, just mix it up. So I've come up with some ways to to practice that. You know, you got these two colors and white. Let's see what what you can do with all of that. So I guess yeah, color mixing is seems to be kind of a challenge and I'm a little bit surprised at that. Just because it seems like a natural, it seems like you would just fool around with it in your studio. And it's a real cheap, easy way to find out an awful lot about your materials.

Kelly Anne Powers 33:08

Do you think people because you can buy every color under the sun? Do you think people first buy all the colors and then realized later that they don't actually know how to mix anything and step back and limit their palette a little bit more.

Jane Davies 33:21

I'm not sure because some people kind of start out feeling like they should mix all their colors, and they bring only primaries, and black and white and second, bring all your colors because my for me like I want all my colors out of the bottle out of the tube, and I want to be able to modify every single one of them. So I tend to just get a whole mess of colors. And if there's a color that I use a lot, and I've been mixing it, but it comes out of a tube, I'm going to buy the tube, so I don't think there's any merit to mixing your own colors for the sake of it, but it's really good to know how to modify things like okay, I'm looking at this painting. That's got all these beautiful bright transparent colors. For example, I want to inject a little really subtle contrast here. So maybe I'll take one of those beautiful bright colors and add just a tiny bit of gray to it, or something to just mute it down a tiny bit. And then put some of that in there and look at that kind of subtle contrast. And just kind of having that kind of ability to mix colors it on a whim is pretty valuable, especially I don't know, like, not especially, but I really enjoy mixing neutral colors. Because people think of neutral I think of neutral is grays and beige. But all the grays and beige and muted colors, you can get us just a fascinating whole world of kind of, and I think I think there are kind of more sophisticated colors then kind of bright luminous primaries. And so being able to create a whole spectrum of those is just great.

Kelly Anne Powers 34:55

Well so what I hear you talking about is just the freedom that comes with deeply knowing your materials, that there's a difference that happens in painting. When you look at something and say, I see a problem, I think it has to do with color, but I have no idea how to mix the color versus being able to, in one intuitive breath, say, I see the problem. I know it's a color and then lay down that color that you just mixed. And then march forward is such a different way of experiencing working than the jerkiness that happens when you're a beginner.

Jane Davies 35:33

I think you're right. Yeah. And so I noticed that I have this fluidity with color because I can like imagine the color or or see a sample of it. It's like, Oh, I can fix that in a heartbeat and that ability. I noticed that a lot of my students struggle with that. And so there's this oh my god, well, how do I get that color? And that you're right, it makes the process a little more jerky, less fluid. Yeah, that kind of fluidity with color is the same with Use every, every time you want a yellow, you're not going to go to your chest. Okay? Which which yellow? We're okay, I need an opaque one. You know, you really just got to play with your paints. And fortunately, that's pretty fun. So, yeah, there is a fluidity there.

Kelly Anne Powers 37:14

Do you think that there's value, again, with learning is the goal in limiting the variables and getting focused in on the thing you want to learn? So for example, if you want to get better color, choose a color and just spend time with it.

Jane Davies 37:29

Oh, that's a great question. Yeah. I mean, people learn in all different ways. And I wouldn't want to prescribe that unless it was for a particular person that I thought would learn that way. Yeah, I think with color if Yeah, just spending time paying attention to it. Maybe take one color at a time. I don't know. I have a couple of color classes online. And I recommend that they not be taken by rank beginners, because I think when you're a beginner painter, the most important thing is just paint and paint and paint some more

Jane Davies 38:00

Then you start getting curious about materials and color and composition and techniques and all that kind of stuff with some experience under your belt or just painting and running into issues of color. That's a good context to then go, maybe take a class or read a book or watch a video, and then just try some exercises that focus more on color.

Kelly Anne Powers 38:22

But let curiosity lead you.

Jane Davies 38:25

Exactly. Yeah, I mean, put a context there. First, get the context in place, because you don't sort of learn about color that learn about composition and then start painting. I mean, I don't think anyone would expect that but first paint, like those paint and sip classes. I know they get a lot of bad rap from from real artists. But like if that's if you want to pay and that's your comfort level of getting started, then it gets you there. It gets you working with pain. It gives you some idea about materials, so what's wrong with that?

If you feel more confident to do a less directed practice, get some paints and stick them on paper and see what happens. You know what I mean? Like whatever your comfort level is to get your hands in the paint, that's a good starting place. And then that will generate curiosity about particulars like color or viscosity, or certain techniques or composition.

Kelly Anne Powers 39:25

So basically stop thinking about all the things you may or may not know, and go find out what you may or may not know.

Jane Davies

Yeah, the work through the work. Yeah. And that curiosity that you mentioned is key. It's absolutely essential, because if you're not curious about it, and you're just trying to make paintings without being curious about painting, the work will show it and it'll fall flat.

Kelly Anne Powers 39:49

What does someone need to learn to paint attitude wise? Well, there's got to be some reason you want to pay to me. I mean, it shouldn't be about

Jane Davies 42:00

Acid a that's necessary.

Kelly Anne Powers 42:02

Would you share with us what are two of those things you do when you're not feeling it, but know that you need to keep working.

Jane Davies

I make collage papers. So I paint on newspaper daily paper or cheap drawing paper, whatever. Oh God, I started this thing recently. It's so fun. I started making collage hearts and,

Jane Davies 42:23

and they're really fun because I'm trying to make them kind of as wonky as I can. And I mean, they started out just like, let's make some hearts, because maybe that would be fun. And then it was, but then I started like, okay, within this heart format, let me play with positive space and negative space and some ambiguity, so that you kind of see the heart but it's just barely there or something like that. So, you know, I found a way to kind of explore some abstract visual territory within that shape and the hearts great because it's such a recognizable shape and it's pretty universal and

Jane Davies 43:00

I have until recently forbidden its use in my classes. I say we're working on shapes and someone comes up with a heart shape. It's like nah, we're not doing that. Unless it's really interesting and kind of idiosyncratic. So I thought well, let me take one of my forbidden things and play with it. So that's Yeah, now I can always go back to hearts and they're little, they're like five by seven. So yeah, those are two things that I can do.

Kelly Anne Powers 43:27

Do you think there is benefit from making yourself finish a piece

Jane 43:32

Probably for some people for me it just know if I try to finish a piece. It will just defy me it will say forget it. Nope.

Jane Davies 44:00

I'm done. Don't touch me. And then another one will say, yeah, I'm close. So be careful. And the others will say, Oh, yeah, pour it on. So I kind of just have to see the pieces with a fresh eye to know if they're done. And so if I'm working on a piece and forcing it, I can't see it anymore. And so it doesn't get finished. And it goes back in the drawer of works in process. And it might come out later and say, Oh, yeah, I'm done. But I can't force it because it'll show it'll look self conscious and look forced. That's how I work but you know, some people can make themselves finished pieces and make gorgeous work.

Kelly Anne Powers 44:39

So in your opinion, if someone wants to get really good at painting, where do you suggest they focus? paint?

Kelly Anne Powers 44:47

Yeah, I don't have any any kind of universal piece of advice. I'd say paint you know, get the colors you like and play with them. You know, it's great to watch some video if some video tutorials or whatever you need to get started.

Kelly Anne Powers 45:00

It just to paint a lot, I think there's a lot to be said for just doing a lot of work and you have to make a lot of bad work to make. You have to make a lot of bad work and allow yourself to make ugly paintings to get to the stuff that that is really you. You have to get past all the copying of your teachers, and the copying of your teachers as an important step. But you'll know when you start to see work that is really yours and such as Yeah, I say where to start, where to focus just doing a lot of work.

Kelly Anne Powers 45:32

Well, Jane, thank you so much for joining us today. You can find more about Jane her workshops or videos, her books at her website, Jane Davies studio.com as well as on Instagram and Facebook and will link to all of that in the show notes. So thank you so much, Jane.

Jane Davies 45:50

Thanks, Kelly.

Kelly Anne Powers

Thanks for joining us this week. Check out the show notes including vocab and links to James classes at Learn to paint podcast.com slash podcast Episode Three. See you in two weeks. Happy painting